Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL)

Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
PO. Box 513, Newington, VA 22122 • 804-639-0600 • 703-372-3285 • 757-271-3705 • 540-446-5783

07/10/09 - VCDL Update 7/10/09 - Part 1

Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- VCDL Update 7/10/09 - Quote for the day, ''Having a computer doesn't = make you a hacker, ... Having a lighter doesn't make you an arsonist. = And having a gun doesn't make you a killer,'' unknown, from this article: http://tinyurl.com/lmnjue 1. Virginia self-defense law 2. What not to do if stopped by a police officer 3. PVC OpEd: Cool the smoldering fear-mongering on guns 4. Another sign fixed: Catoctin Skate Park 5. Isle of Wight may repeal "useless" gun law 6. Dale Welch becomes Executive Member 7. EM Ted Deeds: Evil Exists 8. LTE: Neither candidate is right on guns in bars 9. Two LTEs respond to misplaced fears 10. OpEd: No logic to gun fears 11. OpEd: Concealed weapons are for safety 12. Paranoid nation? 13. Taking to the air in defense of open carry 14. Politicizing the Holocaust Museum shooting is important 15. Good experience with FCPD 16. Police: Man killed in Suffolk break-in had no gun 17. Kansas AG moves to recognize non-resident carry permits 18. Second Amendment includes parks, too 19. Flying with firearms, a primer 20. Pastor urges his flock to bring guns to church 21. Montel Williams wants tracker chips in guns 22. UK is violent crime capital of Europe 23. Delegate "Janus"? 24. Who's afraid of driving alone? Not 89-year-old Rachel ************************************************** 1. Virginia self-defense law ************************************************** I have been getting a lot of questions about self-defense laws in Virginia, so I decided to address it again for those who may be new to = the list or missed it before. First, let me say that I am not a lawyer and don't give legal advice. = Go to a good gun attorney for such advice. That said, to guide you in the right direction, this is my lay understanding of the law: Virginia is a "stand your ground" state. In Virginia the legal protections for for self-defense are in common law and case law. You don't need to retreat as long as: 1. You are somewhere you can legally be (you are covered even outside = your residence) and 2. You are completely innocent and are not part of the "problem" If you are part of the problem, say you made an unfriendly hand gesture at somebody during a traffic incident and that person comes after you later in a parking lot, you have to retreat as far as possible and let the aggressor know that you are giving up the fight. = Only if you are then cornered and the aggressor ignores the fact that you don't want to fight him, are you then able to legally defend yourself. As far as using, or threatening to use, deadly force to defend yourself (brandishing a firearm or shooting a firearm, for example), you can only do so if you, or an innocent third party, is in IMMEDIATE = danger of death or grievous bodily harm. If you are innocent and can stand your ground and have used deadly force when threatened with immediate death or grievous bodily harm, that is considered "justifiable homicide." That is, the State believes that you were completely justified in what you did. If you were part of the problem, retreated, and then had to use deadly = force, that is considered "excusable homicide." Having an excuse to use deadly force is not nearly as good as being justified. Bottom line: never be part of the problem. Period. Don't make obscene gestures, yell at, threaten, or aggravate others. If they try = to aggravate or threaten you, remain calm, ignore them to whatever extent possible, and call the police. At all costs, keep your status of being innocent. That way, if things go down hill, you have the full protection of the law behind you as you stand your ground. If you can retreat safely, do so. The only fight you are guaranteed of winning is the one you don't get into. ************************************************** 2. What not to do if stopped by a police officer ************************************************** As stated in item #1, above, I am not a lawyer and don't give legal advice. Here are some comments, based on my lay understanding of the law, based on a recent incident in another state: Here is the scenario: you are driving in another state, get pulled over by an officer, and suddenly realize that you have a gun under your seat that is not legal in the state that you are being stopped in. Things to do: 1. Turn on the dome light if at night 2. Keep your hands on the steering wheel in plain sight and have your = driver's license, registration, and insurance cards ready 3. Be polite and calm Things NOT to do: 1. Do NOT tell the officer about the gun - admitting that you have a gun will virtually guarantee you are going to be arrested. The police = officer is sworn to uphold the law and if you tell him you are in violation, then he is most likely going to feel he has to arrest you and let the courts sort it out. The admission will also give the police probable cause to search you and your entire vehicle. You won't get any Brownie points, only a trip to the local jail. Remember: you are protected by the 5th Amendment - keep your mouth shut about that gun! Actually, it's best not to answer any questions at all. 2. However, do NOT lie to the officer. If asked if you have any weapons, your best choice is to change the subject by asking him an unrelated question, or, as allowed by the 5th Amendment, to simply not = respond. 3. Do NOT consent to any searches (this is true at all times). Once you consent, anything they find can, and will, be used against you. = If you don't consent and they end up doing an illegal search, then whatever they find cannot be used in court. Even if they decide to do = a search without asking your permission, be sure to tell them that you = do not give them permission to do the search. As long as you are not in the vehicle (say they have not arrested you, = but they have decided to detain you and place you by, or in, the police car) , they cannot search your vehicle generally. They CAN search your vehicle if you give them permission, they have probable cause (like you foolishly volunteering to tell them that you have a gun), or you are still in the vehicle (in which case they can search within your "wingspan" for any weapons for officer safety). Of course, it is best never to be in the above situation. But from my = own experience, I know I came unpleasantly close to being in a similar = position once. For a few disturbing seconds, I thought I didn't have a way of avoiding temporarily crossing into DC because I was in the wrong traffic lane. That's just how quickly and easily it can happen. If it does happen, it's best to "get out of Dodge" quickly and while carefully obeying all traffic laws as you do so. ************************************************** 3. PVC OpEd: Cool the smoldering fear-mongering on guns ************************************************** http://tinyurl.com/m6qp7b roanoke.com Cool the smoldering fear-mongering on guns By Philip Van Cleave | Van Cleave is the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League in Midlothian In Dan Casey's opinion column "Get ready for guns in bars" (June 21), there were some key points I would like to set straight: Unlike what Casey wrote, under Virginia law gun owners currently may openly carry into a restaurant and drink if they wish. But they are not allowed to get drunk. Truth is, that while it is legal, gun owners = are simply not interested in drinking and carrying a gun. The bill that passed the General Assembly this year would have allowed = for concealed handgun permit holders to be able to carry concealed as long as they didn't drink. Gun owners were fine with that. They simply = want to be able to carry discreetly in restaurants and enjoy a meal. The people you should be worried about, violent criminals, already carry in restaurants concealed. Unlike permit holders, they don't care = that it's illegal. So it is not about carrying concealed in bars and drinking, as Casey says, (Virginia doesn't have actual bars, by the way -- they are always part of an eating establishment) it is about carrying concealed = and eating in restaurants that happen to serve alcoholic beverages. While Casey enjoys fear-mongering about "smoldering wisps that emerge from hot pistol barrels after some permit-holding, gun-hiding patrons get into a face-off," he fails to point out that currently those same gun owners can legally carry concealed at special events where alcohol = is served and have been doing so for decades. All without problems. Such imaginary face-offs with permit holders have been used shamelessly for a long time now by those who hate guns. When Virginia started issuing permits on a "shall issue" basis in 1995, people like Casey were screaming about the danger of shoot-outs in grocery stores after two carts collide in the aisle. Those dire warnings all turned out to be nothing more than active imaginations working way over time. But 14 years later, here we go again. Finally, I wonder where Casey was when another bill passed the General = Assembly last year and was signed into law by Gov. Tim Kaine that allows off-duty commonwealth's attorneys to carry concealed and drink in restaurants? I didn't hear a word from him or The Roanoke Times bemoaning that one. I have no problem with commonwealth's attorneys or permit holders carrying concealed and having a drink with their meal. They are all good people who have a proven track record of being law-abiding citizens. Let's not paint any of them as something they are not in order to push for more pointless gun control. ************************************************** 4. Another sign fixed: Catoctin Skate Park ************************************************** Emails between member Bob Jenson and Leesburg Parks Department about an illegal "no guns" rule: [Bob Jenson to Leesburg Parks Department] Good morning. I was at Catoctin Skate Park today with my son and noticed a sign posted that lists the rules of the park (see attached photo). One of the rules on the sign indicates "no firearms". This sign is in violation of Section 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia, which prohibits localities and local government entities from regulating the carrying of firearms. [Leesburg Parks Department to Bob Jensen] Mr. Jensen. Thank you for your email. The Town is currently involved with an exhaustive revision of our Town Code which includes many legal = changes. The issue that you have raised is being addressed as part of the overall Town Code revisions. Once that job is completed, all related park rules and facility guidelines will be adjusted accordingly. In the meantime, the Town is fully aware of the legal changes in this area and that State law over-rides our current park rules. As a result, staff and the Police Department will respond in accordance to the law if needed. Again, thank you for your email. Should you have any further questions, please let me know. ************************************************** 5. Isle of Wight may repeal "useless" gun law ************************************************** http://tinyurl.com/n77htr wtkr.com Isle of Wight may repeal "useless" gun law By Allison T. Williams 247-4535 8:45 PM EDT, June 30, 2009 ISLE OF WIGHT -- The county likely will repeal a new ordinance that prohibits concealed weapons from being taken into public parks and recreational facilities. The Isle of Wight Board of Supervisors adopted an ordinance in August 2008 that allows only "authorized personnel" to carry concealed guns in the county's recreational facilities, said Assistant County Attorney Mark C. Popovich. But the ordinance -- meant to keep the county's athletic fields, senior centers and other recreational facilities safe for the rapidly growing number of users -- is "unenforcable," he said. Trouble is, no one realized it until the county received a call from a = gun rights group, Virginia Citizens Defense League Inc., shortly after = the ordinance passed. State law says that local governments can't adopt ordinances controlling the use, sale, possession or transportation of firearms. Local hunting laws are the only exception. On Thursday, the Board of Supervisors will be looking at a recommendation to repeal the ordinance adopted less than a year ago. If it moves forward, a public hearing could be scheduled for as soon as July 16. Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, applauded Isle of Wight's move to remove "useless gun laws" from its book. "We don't want issues out there confusing people," Van Cleave said. Besides, he said, local parks and recreational venues will be safer with people legally carrying their concealed weapons. ************************************************** 6. Dale Welch becomes Executive Member ************************************************** Congratulations to our latest Executive member - Dale Welch! Dale has been an active VCDL member for several years. If VCDL has something going on in Central Virginia, you can bet Dale will be there. Recently, he was in the middle of the sticker issue with the Richmond Coliseum. He was also at the Goochland Republican Party's meeting where he spoke to Linwood Cobb about the anti-gun location of the Republican Roundup. Dale knows his stuff on gun rights and we look forward to his wisdom being shared on the EM list. ************************************************** 7. EM Ted Deeds: Evil Exists ************************************************** EM Dave Vann writes: In discussing this very topic with EM Ted Deeds and EM Dave Yates, we all believe that we (VCDL) should focus on armed citizens being labeled "first responders." We've said this before, but it needs to become our rallying cry, along with "when seconds count the police are = only minutes away." We need to amass a book with hundreds of news stories of armed citizens either defending themselves or others, that we can have ready = to hand to the media when interviewed. The response from the other side, naturally, will be that that is what = the police are for. Our response would be to simply look around and ask "if something were to happen right now, where is that police officer?" [PVC: PVC: Same concept as calling a citizen a first responder who is the first on the scene of a bad accident and starts rendering aide before the ambulance or police get there.] EM Ted Deeds, who is with the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) had this article published in "American COP" magazine: http://tinyurl.com/m584ce fmgpublications.ipaperus.com Evil Exists: Law enforcement, probably more than any other profession, knows this one truth - evil exists. Whether that evil is crashing planes with thousands dead, or the death of one little child, cops see evil on a more personal basis than almost anyone else - save victims. The only proven, effective way of stopping murderous evil is violent action. There's a valuable group -- guardians -- who will voluntarily put themselves between evildoers and their victims, between the wolves and = the sheep. These guardians are, for lack of a better description often = called 'Sheepdogs.' Whether a cop, service member, firefighter or civilian, there is something very special about the heart of the person who goes toward danger, literally into harm's way to try and help. At a High School in Pearl, Mississippi, evil showed up ready to kill again. A faculty member grabbed his gun and held the killer at gunpoint. Without firing a shot, this sheepdog kept the death count down to two. The killer's next planned stop was a nearby junior high school to kill even more. A would-be murder spree at a middle school dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania with 240 children present was thwarted when a restaurant owner grabbed his shotgun and swiftly acted, stopping the attack and forcing the killer to surrender. This killing spree was stopped at one. In the mass murder that never happened at Santana High School in Santee, California, evil was confronted and stopped early on in the attack. A parent at the high school -- an off-duty San Diego Police officer -- reacted to the emerging threat with his gun, keeping the death toll down to two. Appalachia Law School, evil killed again. Two sheepdogs -- civilian gun owners -- went into the jaws of the attack and stopped it cold -- without firing a shot. The death toll kept to two. - CONTRASTS - Think on this: 11 casualties at the Amish school in Pennsylvania. This adult incarnation of evil methodically killed little girls. 24 casualties at the Northern Illinois University attack. 39 casualties at the Columbine school incident... no sheepdogs. 55 casualties at the murder spree at Virginia Tech, another 'gun- free' zone. 13 casualties at the Westroads Mall by a fame-seeking killer who wanted to go out in style. Unchallenged, this killer moved through the = mall laying waste at will! 45 casualties at the at Luby's restaurant massacre in Texas. A would- be sheepdog did not have her gun with her (back then it was illegal in = Texas). A cretin killed during an Illinois church service when he took the minister's life. Illinois is one of only two states left still prohibiting concealed carry permits for "average" law abiding citizens. Contrast with: Zero dead, six injured at the Tacoma Mall shooting spree. One armed civilian (there may have been a second) took action to stop the evildoer who told police to "follow the screams." A killer's spree was derailed when an off-duty officer who had his gun = and the courage to use it went into harms way at Trolley Square Mall in Utah. Tragically, five innocents were killed. Taking his attack into a posted 'gun-free' zone, this predator was stopped from killing many more by an armed sheepdog. An armed female civilian sheepdog saved lives when she confronted evil = and shot him at the New Life Church in Colorado. Need more examples? Recently a workplace attack in Houston, Texas was thwarted with only one injury. The would-be killer was confronted by two employees with guns and permits to carry them. They gave the attacker something else to worry about -- incoming rounds. Remember 9-11? Inside a self-defense-free zone -- airplanes -- the terrorists, armed with box cutters, seized planes they then used to kill thousands. Back then cockpits were 'gun-free.' After 9-11 we tragically learned this policy made the situation more dangerous for everyone except the bad guys. Stupid Laws: Guns are not the problem -- ineffective laws are. Our laws are targeting precisely the wrong people, forcing good guys to become easy = prey for evil killers. We must stop this madness before one more innocent life is needlessly lost. Brave people willing to act can stop rampaging killers. We shouldn't be forced to be helpless when facing evil. Let our precious sheepdogs be armed! ************************************************** 8. LTE: Neither candidate is right on guns in bars ************************************************** So, if her neighbor's 21-year-old son had died because of a drunk driver, would Ms. Enderle have said, "Their son died thanks to Ford Motors and the autoworkers union"? http://tinyurl.com/mdegyv roanoke.com Neither candidate is right on guns in bars Dan Casey's column "Get ready for guns in bars" (June 21) is excellent. Do the two men running for governor -- Creigh Deeds and Bob = McDonnell -- know the definition of a bar, which is where people gather to consume alcohol. That's how the bar owner makes a living. The bill they want to sign into law making it legal for people going into a bar to bring a loaded weapon, as long as they do not consume alcohol, is without doubt the stupidest idea I've heard in 50 years. Only a year ago in January, my neighbor's 21-year-old son was shot in a bar in downtown across from the City Market, thanks to the NRA and the Second Amendment. Either Deeds and McDonnell are totally brain dead or they think that the voters are brain dead. I wish there were a third party I could vote for if this is the way Deeds and McDonnell plan to govern Virginia. JOYCE ENDERLE ROANOKE ************************************************** 9. Two LTEs respond to misplaced fears ************************************************** http://tinyurl.com/kjocsq roanoke.com Misplaced fears about gun laws I am appalled that intellects such as editors and university professors use so little of their intellect when discussing gun laws. Proposed legislation to allow holders of permits to carry a concealed weapon in establishments that serve alcohol is designed primarily to allow carry in restaurants. Carrying in bars is not the major intent. In fact, people who inhabit bars may not pass the rigid requirements to get a permit. Most people who have permits do not carry except in their car when traveling. There has never been a violation of gun laws by a person with a permit to carry in the state of Virginia, nor elsewhere that I know of. All are reputable people -- not paranoid. To get a permit, a person must undergo training that includes laws pertaining to that right. One leaves the session believing it might be = better to take the first bullet than face the criminal and civil charges. It does seem with gun legislation, as with many other things, persons who make their decisions based on emotion rather than facts do sometimes succeed in certain fields. BILL MASHBURN SR. BLACKSBURG ------ Second Amendment didn't cause shooting Re: "Neither candidate is right on guns in bars," June 24 letter: Joyce Enderle wrote that making it legal for people to carry guns in bars is "the stupidest idea I've heard in 50 years." She then implies that the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment are the reason her neighbor's son was shot last year. In my opinion, that implication is the stupidest thing I have heard in 50 years. I suppose Enderle would like to see the Second Amendment removed from the Bill of Rights. While we are at it, let's just trash the whole Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I have no patience for narrow-minded people who exercise their First Amendment right yet want to deny us our Second Amendment rights. PAUL BISBEE BEDFORD ************************************************** 10. OpEd: No logic to gun fears ************************************************** Thanks to Matt Stromberg for the link: http://tinyurl.com/pnsodd insidenova.com Simpson Column: No logic to gun fears JAMES SIMPSON Published: July 3, 2009 Tomorrow, Saturday, July 4, we celebrate American independence! During = this time I hope that Americans will take a few minutes to reflect on how we gained our independence ... while so many, to this very day, are still unable to achieve liberty. The fact is, we can thank our success on one thing -- the individual right to bear arms. If it were not for the firearms owned by private citizens in the late 1700s, the British would have easily defeated us. Yet so many today are willing to give up this basic right in the hope that government will be there to protect them and will never become oppressive. Thomas Jefferson wrote "... that even under the best forms, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny ..." A couple weeks ago the issue of limiting private gun ownership reared its ugly head again when a piece of human excrement -- who I will not give the honor of mentioning by name -- got drunk and killed a duck next to Tim's Rivershore Restaurant. This act elicited an Our View editorial by the News & Messenger that queried: "It makes one wonder why people should be allowed guns in restaurants, period." With the follow-up rhetorical question "Do we really want a criminal and a patron exchanging gunfire in a crowded restaurant?" I have heard many accounts of murders in restaurants -- I still remember the incident (late '70s I believe) of a massacre that took place inside a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant on Rt. 236 (Duke Street) next to Interstate-95. Someone walked in and killed many patrons, and no one was armed and able to stop him. Or the event where = unarmed people were massacred in a New York subway train, again where the citizens were unable to defend themselves. So yes ... I would rather have a fighting chance than be a helpless victim. Criminals are going to obtain weapons. If more laws are passed reducing private ownership, crime will increase as evidenced in places = like Chicago, New York City and Washington, D.C. Even in countries where private ownership is outlawed, criminals acquire weapons. If guns were the problem, then thousands of deaths would be reported at gun shows. Anyone who takes a minute to shrug off the fear indoctrinated into many by the liberal media will rightly conclude that most gun violence occurs in areas where people have been disarmed = -- universities, public schools, places of employment, restaurants, etc. The Our View piece from June 20 also states that "Guns should be banned from restaurants, plain and simple." It goes on to suggest that = if the government won't ban guns, then restaurant owners should post signs banning guns as the law provides for establishments to prohibit them if they desire. This would only serve as an invitation to anyone wanting to rob a restaurant or its patrons. The fact that we need a "permit" to carry is already a serious infringement of the Second Amendment. We don't need to ask the permission of government to practice a religion, speak our minds and peacefully assemble. Every step that is taking to remove our God given = right to protect ourselves moves us one step closer to tyranny. Many are fighting very hard to remove the private sale of guns, requiring the government become involved in every transaction ... as well as requiring that all individuals register their guns. The latter has been used numerous times throughout history to confiscate guns once those governments realized that their tyrannical nature was inciting a = citizen revolt. From a document issued by the Second Continental Congress on July 6th, 1775 titled Declaration of the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms: "From thence the troops proceeded in warlike array to the town of Concord, where they set upon another party of the inhabitants of the same province, killing several and wounding more, until compelled to retreat by the country people suddenly assembled to repel this cruel aggression." These people did not reply to tyranny by throwing stones. Our government is currently diving headlong into financial ruin. You can't = just magically produce trillions of dollars and not have significant repercussions. You can't have the government take over huge parts of the private sector and not have significant repercussions. It will not = be long before our government turns oppressive. Freedoms, once lost, are very difficult to regain. Please try and remember why we celebrate July 4 as you are watching the fireworks. James Simpson lives in Lake Ridge. ************************************************** 11. OpEd: Concealed weapons are for safety ************************************************** http://tinyurl.com/nlcx36 roanoke.com Concealed weapons are for safety Bill Henderson Henderson, of Roanoke, is retired from the federal prison system. I once again find myself at odds with your paper. Because the column "Get ready for guns in bars" by Dan Casey (June 21) appeared in the Virginia section instead of the editorial pages, I can only assume your editors saw it as a newsworthy story rather than the hit piece it = is. You present your ideology on this issue in a twisted and biased way, which has become common practice for The Roanoke Times -- specifically, when you print material on the concealed-carry legislation for carrying a concealed weapon into an establishment serving alcohol, restaurants included. If you were honest, you would have reported the facts and mentioned that the real reason for this bill was to allow lawfully licensed concealed-carry holders to enter any establishment serving alcohol, i.e., Red Lobster, Ruby Tuesday, etc. The laws prohibit the consumption of alcohol and carrying any weapon. To qualify for my permit I had to prove that I was a safe and responsible citizen. I was given a background check, reviewed and approved by my county sheriff, and approved by a judge. I don't patronize bars now, but I do enjoy eating in the nicer restaurants. Prior to retiring I had concealed-carry permits in previous states of residence -- Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Georgia and Kentucky. I underwent classes, security checks and weapons testing in some cases. I believe it is my right and obligation to protect myself and family wherever I may be. I believe my family deserves a man who is as capable of protecting them as an evil person is capable of destroying them. I also believe that a lawfully armed citizen in the right place at the = right time can turn the tables on a tragedy. I have heard it said if only one student or teacher at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007, had a concealed weapon, the number of those killed would have been fewer. Continued ...